"Multi-part Historical Plastic 28mm" Topic

The Valiant WWII 20mm figs are an excellent model to emmulate. The basic soldiers are one piece castings and you get lots of them. No fuss.

The special figures such as officers and crews are multi-part and allow for variations.

Seems a perfect approach for both wargamer and modeler and the price is right. If all periods were catered for in hard plastic using this approach I would be using plastic instead of metal. I would love to see a company produce basic Napoleonic, SYW, and Marlburian infantry in hard plastic at a reasonable price -- then I would buy officers and special units in metal.

Crazy idea…. I would love to see someone make a range of hard plastic small scale (15mm) figures designed for ranked masses in a slight march pose. The front rank would be cast with 3-5 figures together gaps filled-in – only the front of the figures would be fully sculpted except for the figures at the ends of the 'rank' which would need some side finishing; the back of the legs/lower torso would be a plain 'plug'; the upper torso and heads would be fully sculpted. The rear rank would be the opposite (only the backs and top portion of the torso/head would be fully sculpted. An optional 'middle plug' with only the upper torso and heads (and the ends) fully sculpted would be used for a third central rank. These would be designed to mounted together to give the impression of masses in a small scale, but without the need to paint the lower inside surfaces that are less visible anyway.

Like I said, crazy, but what a quick way to paint an army….

My two bits for what it is worth. Multi part models are fine by me as long as the parts are not too many per figure to put together. A one piece leg with torso, arms with weapons attached, and plenty of head swopps would be more than enough.

Example: Roman model would have. The body, different right arms with different weapons, musician, and standard. Different heads with both with and without helmets, and even different helmets. Left arm at most in two or three poses, one of them made to work with both the standard and musician. Plenty of shields for the troops. So a model with shield would have at most 5 parts. Note the roman body would work for many other nations if in Chain.

That said, I would rather see a Colonial Range or two. Spanish American War, with Spanish, enemies and allies, Moros and other troops of the Phillipines. But, that may be too narrow a field, even though it is one that has been neglected to a degree. Good Phillipine Army of Liberation models are hard to come by. Have to use Cuban irregulars presently.

I wonder why no one has mentioned doing something in plastic that would allow people to buy whole units, already painted and based, for an ancients game that was similar to Mechwarrior, or the new Axis & Allies Naval game (except being able to buy the exact unit you wished).

You could do this in 10mm, 15mm, or 20mm… 25mm might work, except that it takes up so much room… something that a lot of people don't have.

A line of hard-plastic miniatures, done like the clicky system, except as units (be they ancient, medieval, renaissance, SYW, Napoleonics/AWI, WWI, WWII, and so on) would probably be a pretty successful line.

It would allow people to get into a period in minutes. And, if you wanted to appease those who like the modelling end of things, you could sell the same sets unassembled, so that the customers could produce original units of their own….

This is going to happen eventually… If I had the money, I would be on it right now…

Re-reading this thread it jumped out at me that Tamiya and other model makers have for years and years made figures that had multiple parts and were hard plastic. How can they do it and others can not? Volumn is one answer….
VR
James Mattes

Presumably the historical modelling market is sufficiently large and established – besides, at least Tamiya still keeps in production kits that were originally designed in early 70's!

Then again, the coverage of periods is rather limited – main scope being on WWII and later, kits for earlier periods being relatively exotic sight.

Griefbringer

Tony,

The Roman idea sounds fantastic. Post Marian reform 100 BCE to 200 CE would be the place to start even using HBO's Rome as a starting point. As a former mid-level manager at the head US office of a certain large UK based company, I may have some information for your endeavour that could prove useful, if you're still following this thread. Non Servo.

If these came in boxed sets with rules, dice etc. and were sold in multinational stores, you just might manage to start some new people in wargaming to…

I haven't read the 107 posts before this so apologies if I am repeating points already made.

I think this is a good idea if carefully done.

I think there is a market for this, and I think the market is in 'big battallions' of the most popular periods in 28mm plastic. Provided that 1) the figs are compatible with at least one existing large metal range, and there is a significant price advantage.

Taking Napoleonics for example, I would be very interested in boxes of 40, a whole battallion, in decent poses. You don't have to do a whole range, just concentrate on the bulk sellers.

Same with Romans etc. The trick with hard plastics is surely volume, so basic packs that folks will buy lots of seem to be the trick: Romans, medievals, battallions of Naps that folks will buy in orders of 12 boxes and then go to Foundry for the specialist stuff.

A bit of a cheeky and parasitic marketing plan, but a marketing plan nonetheless.

Just my two cents worth, and again apologies if posts # 12, 65, and 99 covered all this.

Howdy Slave2Darkness -- always open to advice!

tonyATwargamesfactoryDOTCOM or PM me if you get a membership.

All the best,
Tony

RE: where the product stands.

We'll have 48 figures/box for about $30US -- a basic ruleset will be included (more on that later)

As Whatitsgood4 mentioned -- our aim is to provide nice, big units -- that have been sculpted to match well with other popular sculpts -- and let you go to the other companies for your leaders and specialty troops.

All the best!

TR

nothing like big bags of 500s' 10mm ?
(a realistic bataillon 1/1/ for around $30 USD -all modulars-)

in 28mm,
any sets of cavalery/ infantery mix (dragoons, or even regular light and heavy cavalery) planned?

any renaissance (mid XVI and early XVII century) sets ?

and to crowd large terrain with non fighting figures :

any civilian (peasants, burgers , merchants ect) ?

any animals (sheeps, pigs, cows, chikens …) ?

imperial romans, celts and napoleonics will be your biggest sellars mate.

napoleonics as they love to have loads and this will allow them this without having to get a second mortage.

imperial romans, as they are the most popular roman type around, and lastly celts, most people are put of these due to the high cost of getting an army, this solves that problem as well as giving your romans something to job.

if you need test pieces painting give me a shout as i paint for a living and could help you out (as it would be beneficial to both of us) (my site needs updating soooooo badly lol)

here is two samples of my unit painting (not the best pics realy)

link
link

I like your painting a lot, nice subtle tonal range. GPA do you have a link to your site?

my site needs redoing and the pics are realy poor.
having to wait until i get enough decent quality pics together to make it worth while.

it's also a mate who's going to be doing it for me as i a bloody useless with computers.
i'm a paintbrush and guitar kinda guy lol

myrmidonstudio.com

you will find more pics on the steve dean forum of more recent work of mine, link

just do a search for generulpoleaxe and limit it to the pictures section.

thanks for the compliments as well :)

Is there a website for Wargames Factory?

darn, missed the survey. i would definitely go back to 28mm figures if they were multi-part plastic. especially ancients. either figures with a torso and legs with separate arms with weapons attached, and heads or even a figure with upper torso, lower torso and legs, separate arms with weapons attached, and heads. army types that i would be interested in would be successors, graeco-bactrian, later roman/early byzantine

Did you see that the Perry's are releasing w civil war line in plastic? Test bed perhaps?

Getting back to the original question--posed oh so long ago:

What sets/what poses/etc. do you want to see?

Howard and I were discussing this at our club's game day last Saturday. Mongols!

Think of all the possibilities. Mongols/Tartars went just about everywhere, and fought many different kingdoms, empires, etc., etc., etc.

Just my two cents worth …

fIFTY4 and your wonderful idea.

I would love to see Late Republican/Early Imperial Romans.

I would probably sell my mother into slavery for a chance at them ;)

I realize that this thread is old (and I couldn't manage to read the whole thing, but suffice to say I WOULD pay $30 USD for twenty well-sculpted plastics with interchangeable pieces)but I would be interested in any progress on this idea.

Looking forward to some more info!

Matt

Hi Matt --

Everything has moved along since this was originally posted and we will are in the midst of development of your hoped for Late Republic/Early Imperials (lorica hamata, montefortinos, etc)!

Stay tuned!

All the best,
Tony

I was going to mention the Perry's- 36 for £12.00 GBP (thats $24 USD at current rates). You may not be able to stand the comparison (even on a different period) $30 USD for 20 = £15, 75p a figure- Metal isn't that much more.

On the up side I do like 'hard' plastic (as opposed to the normal bendy 1/72)- I find it easy to paint. GW, for all their mucking about- do mould detailed figures- rings on my son's Dwarf mail are always well defined etc. The actual figures- (Kaos Spikey Bits!)('Kaos' is probably TM GW) well they are up for debate. Plastics seem to have no flash, and are easier to glue, plus cut cleaner for conversion.

I really don't understand the sneers of the anti plastic brigade (currently part of the Pipe and Slippers Division in the OrBats)

Tony,

It's a Christmas miracle! :)

Which model line will these figures be compatible with? (a majority of mine are gripping beast, but I've always wanted to go crazy with foundry :P )

Looking forward to any news!

Matt

'Everything has moved along since this was originally posted and we will are in the midst of development of your hoped for Late Republic/Early Imperials (lorica hamata, montefortinos, etc)!'

Been thinking of doing a Roman army. Can't wait to see them.

I can buy 30 for $18 USD from OldGlory.
Perrys 36 for $24 USD is basically the same and I would probably justify plastic on the grounds that Perry sculpting is better than OG's, but 20 for $30…. too pricey why buy plastic when you can have metal for less, even Foundry go for less on ebay.

Actually I am suprised that no of the big guys(Hat,Zvezda,Italeri) have thought to put out a 28mm range would have thought they could do this at a fraction of the price and it would sell like hot cakes.

Just like the plastics market exploded in the late 90s I feel someday we will all wake up and metal 28mm will be a thing of the past…. but I am not holding my breath lol.

Hmm,
I now notice fifty4 say 48 for $30 USD which is ok, well at least for me that a price point where I would buy plastic.

He also mentions including a ruleset, my personal feeling is drop the ruleset if it will make the figures cheaper. There are enough rulesets around already, do we really need yet another one and except for first time gamers most will already have there favorite/club rules anyway so I am not sure what this adds.

Fifty4…

When are we going to be able to see pieces of this work?

I am a BIG Punic Wars fan, and have been holding off on getting back into 25/28mm Ancients for want of a decent line of Punic Wars minis… I would prefer to see them in plastic, as I am a pretty big fan of plastics (They are so easy to convert that it is just silly… I have done, so far, about 50 conversions of the GW plastics, and hope to have them up on a web-site by Christmas), and I even have a Concept protected for the creation of a pre-painted line of ancients that are sold in boxed sets (opposing forces, 4 to 6 "units" per side, pull them out of the box, throw some of the included pre-painted/prepared terrain on the table.. Read the couple of pages of rules, and have a look at the "Unit cards" for each unit…

And start playing the game (Dice, measuring sticks, wheel/turning gauges, clicky-stuff on the unit bases to record unit fatigue, casulaties, morale, etc… all included with the game)… When you want to get a larger army… You just go to the store shelf… Let's see… I already have two legions, and I need another two Allied Legions… Let's get one box each of those… I need another unit of Carthaginian Heavy Infantry to beef them up… a couple more elephants. A Celtiberian Allied Command of four units (One of Cavalry, of of Heavy Scutarii Foot, and two units of Caetrati light infantry)… Hm… Maybe some Numidians, as I can use them for both sides… Walk to the cash register… Pay… walk back to the gaming table.. Open the boxes… Pull out the figures… Put them in their proper deployment zones, and begin playing.. Total elapsed time… Roughly 1/2 an hour…

It will happen eventually… I just hope that I am attached to the money that the concept generates..

Personally I think you're on to a winner for example WAB seems pretty popular and from the forums I frequent quite a few GW vet's are drifting over into historicals because of it and these guys are well used to plastics and like the ease of conversion. I'd also consider for further ranges potential cross-overs, produce high-medievals/early rena…(sp?) 15/16th centuary stuff and I reckon boxes would wind up in WFB empire and bretonnian armies as well as historical armies. It would probably also result in army creep the figure manufactuers best friend.

Originally:

"…What would you like to see?

My main concept is 28mm, 20 multi-part minis per box -- about $30 USD USD retail. Maybe a few metal pieces thrown in as "extras"

What genres would you like to see?
<snip>

What sets/what poses/etc. do you want to see…"

After some thought – (not based on practicality or sales but my personal whims/desires):

Well if must be 28mm (which means breaking the No New Scale Rule) then only the following has any interest to me:

What genres I would like to see – Definitely AWI, certainly 1500-1750's North/South American early Colonial figures, probably Mexican-American War and possibly ACW (now that the Perry twins have started their line I might be tempted.)

What sets/what poses/etc. do I want to see – loading and firing for gunpowder weapon infantry; melee, advancing, running, standing, kneeling (as in scouting poses) and prone for all weapons. Civilian (men, women and children – servants, slaves, settlers) figure sets. Cavalry with sword, pistol or carbine being used.

Do I expect/hope to see them? Maybe, other then the ACW, the AWI…

Gracias,

Glenn

My pick would be some War of the Spanish Succession or Thirty Years War figs. Uniforms weren't too well defined, so one release could be used for multiple forces.

Infantry & Cavalry would be good separations as well.

54, your post implies you've picked Roman late republic period/early empire to do in multipart 28mm plastic at £15.00 GBP for 20 models. If you do gauls as well, or other generic celts, I forsee you selling a ton of this stuff to WAB gamers.
While 30 metals for £16.00 GBP from old glory is nice, 20 detailed plastics that are lighter, easier to trasnsport, don't chip as easily etc for £15.00 GBP will sell by the ton.
When they come out, I'll certainly buy some. Just make sure you've got some additional metals/plastics for the auxilia/cavalry/skirmishers etc.

"My main concept is 28mm, 20 multi-part minis per box -- about $30 USD USD retail. Maybe a few metal pieces thrown in as "extras"

What genres would you like to see?
WW2 1945 Germans/Americans
Vikings/Normans/Saxons"

other than the romans/celts these would be my faves and would be huge sellers
for WW2 US infantry and paratroops for june-december 44
for Germans regular infantry and SS (including some assault rifles) with at least one box of each in winter gear
(ie a normandy set and a bulge set)
also Commonwealth troops for normandy thru holland,

for the Viking age, easy

Vikings, 2 sets elite (hirdmen, berserkers & characters) and regulars (bondi and thralls)
Saxons, 2 sets same idea (huscarls/characters and thegns)
Normans, 3 sets one of 12 knights and 2 with 30 infantry
one armored, one not with a variety of weapons
of course having the heads/arms/weapons from all three lines being interchangeable would make them very popular

Dave

I would certainly give a very big vote for Viking/Saxon/Normans as well. I have been slowly building a Norman army for the last couple of years and would love to complete it and a couple of opposing armies.

I would also really like to see HYW's as well.
I recently bought some GW Bretonnians with the idea to bulk out a couple of HYW armies quickly and cheaply but the problem is they dont really match the size of they metals I have (foundry/essex) the GW horses for example are about twice the width of the metal equivalent, bowmen are just about ok, men-at-arms are big and not really historical, so I would love to see someone produce some either comparable with 28mm metal or comparable with GW plastic

When 54's Romans and Celts come out I will for sure buy several boxes. I was only put off buying metal before because everyone at my local club already has metal Romans so why invest my scarce $$$ in duplicating this, but cheap plastics is another matter, personally I like seeing big armies and cheap plastic is a way I could afford to do that.

Also I have to mention, as someone living overseas, plastic make a big difference on postage, I am used to often paying as much in postage as I do for the figures with metal, but with plastic the cost is next to nothing, that has a huge impact on my spending power.

Fifty4 do you have an ETA on the Romans, 2nd quarter, 3rd quarter? I know HAT always seem to have about a year lag from concept to in the shops with their plastics, do you expect a similar sort of production line?